A manifesto for ⁂ as a symbol for the fediverse
https://symbol.fediverse.info/
@FediverseSymbol @trygvekalland
It means “therefore”
@FediverseSymbol I feel like the colors in the default logo are important. For me it represent different instances with different purposes. Mastodon isn't just a cluster of servers talking to each other, it's the people using it - which is represented by colors nicely right now.
@FediverseSymbol This symbol is not very good in every dimension.
@FediverseSymbol who is this Meta you talk about un tour site, I only know mastodon 😌
@FediverseSymbol good luck finding any kind of consensus.
I like the idea, it is not far off the current symbol and has the advantage of being easily used in text like this ⁂
@FediverseSymbol So it's a snowflake? Maybe there's a case to be made that people who would typically be attacked by the far right as "snowflakes" or "woke" should own those words and use them with pride. But I'm not convinced this is the right way to go.
@FediverseSymbol you could submit it to https://icons.wedistribute.org/ as an alternative to the existing one?
@FediverseSymbol that's the ideal which the fediverse doesn't and never will achieve. It will always be more like a galaxy with multiple black holes at the centre.
If you really aspire to this look beyond the fedi which is a lifeboat, not the shore.
@FediverseSymbol this is unconvincing:
"We also don’t believe that a large corporation that is joining in as late should be the one defining the iconography for the fediverse."
Who are *you*, though? If your argument is ad hominem, show your names and your bona fides. Why should anyone care what you believe?
And if you're proposing a symbol after Threads, isn't that even later?
Edited 90d ago
@FediverseSymbol feels a bit like turning Twitter into X except that people at least know how to say X (even if they never do).
@FediverseSymbol
Making it clear that the Fediverse supposed to be constructed from single-user nodes financed and managed by their owners is, in my opinion, just as important as symbolizing it.
I saw the rise of the LUGs in the 90s, and I saw its demise after Y2K, and I fear the same will happen to the Fediverse if we keep ignoring the importance of the ethical-hacker owner-operator.
@FediverseSymbol intriguing discussion. I like the thoughts behind the choice even if it's a little strange do have to copy or worse manually insert a character.
Besides it looks small and not so clear ⁂
@FediverseSymbol@typo.social nah, I'm good. I like the current logo.
@FediverseSymbol molt original, el logo del Fedivers! 😋 #fediverselogo ⁂
#eriçonsdelfedivers #fediversesymbol
@FediverseSymbol
Hypothetically, I wonder if it could replace the second @ in handles.
@FediverseSymbol⁂typo.social
The added distinguishablilty might increase visibility and awareness upon users seeing handles. People could figure it out quickly, rather than, as I presume they frequently do, ignoring something that just looks like another handle.
@FediverseSymbol Asterism does not exist in a vacuum. It was not added to Unicode for fun so that it's use case could be found later.
Asterisms are still used for purposes such as dinkus. Indeed I regularly use it for that myself.
Attempting to repurpose an already used symbol has strong "move over loser, we are taking this" vibes.
You want something that is part unicode? Fine, do it the hard (but correct) way like everyone else and submit a proposal.
Edited 88d ago
@FediverseSymbol If you pin this post it makes it easy for people to find, and boost, from your profile.
❤️ ⁂
@FediverseSymbol
I like the current one :fediverse: too, but this ⁂ symbol has some advantage over the current one being a proper Unicode character. Although it's true that this new proposed symbol is already being used to represent other things, at least I have had seen this symbol on ACs and frgos. But nonetheless I don't mind if this symbol gets adapted to symbolize the fediverse.
@FediverseSymbol shout out to william s. burroughs, will only ever see an asterisk as an asshole, doubly so for wal-mart, triply so with this symbol better used for snow :V
@FediverseSymbol Original has some personality and was looking good. This one? It's just some random characters
@ruari Hello! It’s definitely not our intention to erase existing uses of ⁂ :) It’s a great dinkus, it’s used in weather forecasting, and apparently can stand for “untitled”. In a way, that’s a sign that it’s been reused for different usages several times already.
@ruari Many symbols have, # are now for hashtags and chat rooms as much as they are for ordinal numbers, and they haven’t been used for weights in a long time. Here we use two @s, one for username (which comes from microblogging), one for belonging to a server (which comes from earlier computing), and we don’t use it for prices anymore. And most smileys re-use symbols :)
Once chanced upon a Freemason's book they use it extensively.
@ruari What I mean is that symbols can be repurposed without loosing the meaning of their previous uses, it’s all a matter of context!
As for proposing to Unicode, it’s not the way to go to propose a new symbol out of the blue. It only accepts symbols that are already widely in use with a clear meaning.
@ruari One good thing about the ⁂ (besides its look and the conceptual meaning we can put behind), is that’s its other uses are relatively nice and not used much in social media contexts. So we believe there is a space for it to be used with a meaning here without conflicting with its others. When I read a book and see a dinkus, I’m not going to thing “fediverse”.
@FediverseSymbol I read the book. Very much enjoyed it! I think it's over a decade old now? A second updated edition would probably be justified!
And I'll find his account ;-)
@FediverseSymbol you also say this: "@ is the symbol for e-mail. # is the symbol for hashtags. ☮ is the symbol for peace. ♻ is the symbol for recycling. ⁂ can be the symbol for the fediverse."
These are not the symbols you should compare to. The most recent symbol that makes sense to compare to is the AI twinkles ✨.
https://qz.com/how-became-the-unofficial-ai-emoji-1851059332
The asterism seems really close to it.
Nobody puts an @ on a web page to show what to click to send email. They put an envelope ✉️.
@FediverseSymbol another symbol to compare to is the share icon:
@FediverseSymbol I think it would be a good idea to show some recommended uses of the icon. How would you show that I can Fediverse-like an image on a Web page? How to show that I can join a group? Follow an author? In a list of links to my various profiles, which ones are Fediverse enabled?
@evan Yees, we actually had the share icon and the RSS icon as references when thinking about it! Link and attachments are good prior art too thanks. Edit: Oops, switched instance, but still @nclm answering.
Edited 90d ago
@FediverseSymbol finally, I understand the motivation of wanting to show the topology of the Fediverse - a network with nodes and edges.
@FediverseSymbol but what if instead of trying to make a teeny weeny abstract diagram of the Fediverse, the focus were more personal -- about making a connection between two people, no matter where they are and what social networking service they use?
"Follow me on any network."
"Follow me wherever you get your socials."
https://www.anildash.com/2024/02/06/wherever-you-get-podcasts/
@FediverseSymbol what symbol would you use for that? Would it still be the asterism?
@FediverseSymbol I think the strongest point of this symbol is that it looks like a special asterisk, and we're used to seeing those at the ends of words to show that there's something more about them.
@evan In an ideal world, ⁂ would be after every item in this list, so maybe useless in the end. Until that time, ⁂ can help to make following choices.
@FediverseSymbol @evan
⁂ is nice as a symbol for the #Fediverse
but there is a well known symbol already.
It should become an #Unicode
I don‘t care about Meta.
Who should ask whom?
Edited 89d ago
@evan In UI on a social app that have both local interactions and outside interactions, it could mean the second one, something like “someone from another server” / “someone from the wider fediverse”.
Or if you write it yourself, it might be more like “⁂ @evan” as “this is my fediverse handle, no matter the platform”
@prz In our idea the color adapts to the text color around it, or can be turned into any relevant color fitting the use. However, when making graphics out of it, it’s definitely possible to bring back more colors for esthetics and extra meaning. See this proposal for instance: https://bcn.fedi.cat/objects/4c635366-293d-4a86-9c1c-215c6f2c732f
@FediverseSymbol @prz and what would you do about it being so disconnected? Fedi is VERY interconnected and the current logo shows *both* diversity and interconnectivity just fine...
@F100 @trygvekalland 'therefore' is smooth dots like ∴, the asterism is three asterisk * together ⁂
Edited 92d ago